Perc X Round Robin



  • Hi.

    I'm trying to get a grip on how the round robins work with the internal piano roll.
    First I thought the next sample within a specific velocity layer is played if I moved up to the next midi note in the piano roll but realized that new samples are played on the same midi note as well but depending on what velocity is currently played. If I have full velocity it plays the same sample but in the middle it plays different samples. It seem like the world is into random flavors which can be cool but I´d like to get access to the specific samples within a specific velocity layer.
    Is that possible..?

    /Jacob



  • Dear @bigisland

    You're right. The to-down axis represents the round robins. With the little velocity sliders underneath the Midi Editor you can access the "third dimension" of the individual Midi Notes. Depending on the depth of the velocity layer of the current instrument the note will play the sample of the selected velocity/loudness.

    The samples are consistent though. I admit that it sometimes can be a bit tricky to adjust the sliders when you have an instrument with a lot of velocity layers. But when you have the same Midi Note with the same Velocity, you should get the exact same sample.

    (Did you know that you can draw a line with right-click and move-mouse? Its an easy way to set the same veloctiy to subsequent samples.)

    Best,
    d



  • Ok understood.

    The moving of the sliders is unintuitive I agree, it would be good with a numerical readout as well. Is it possible to access the various samples within a velocity layer outside the internal editor? To tweak this in the piano roll within my daw would be nice. And do you have a chart on how the layers are distributed?

    /Jacob



  • Dear Jacob @bigisland

    You can check the amount of Velocity Layers with activating the "Manual Mode" in the Mix Tab.

    This also opens the door to make the samples playable with your DAWs midiroll. The velocity layers also apply there 🙂

    Best,
    D



  • @do

    The manual mode and the visual display of the velocity regions is cool, however I would like to be able to decide what sample among the round robins is gonna play within a velocity layer. As you confirmed this is achieved within the internal piano roll by moving the note up or down in "pitch" in the piano roll. This means I can start to create rhythmical phrases and not just have it be random. I would like to do so in the piano roll of my daw as well.... Possible?

    /Jacob



  • Dear @bigisland

    Ah, now i got it 🙂
    Sadly changing the RoundRobins Samples from the DAW is not possible. The DAW just puts straight MIDI input into PercX and therefore there is no way PercX could know which RR Sample is meant, and we also wanted the manual mode to be playable in one single instance of PercX.
    Actually this is one of the big points why we built the MIDI engine inside PercX, to make it possible to edit the RRs and the Velocity at once.

    The Manual Mode was thought of as a quick way to jam and make quick sketches.
    If you want to have complete control over each sample you could use several instances of PercX to create blocks for bigger arrangements.

    Best,
    d



  • Thanks for clarifying. Does it then mean that if I program a rhythm in the editor using various "pitches" to have access to the round robins these nuances are then lost if I decide to export this pattern as a midi file into my DAW?

    Also, I'm trying to get a grip on the random feel of this instrument. If I go about it as you describe it in your first reply I end up with a random vibe in the playback. Here is what I've done.... (I tried this in both standalone and within my daw).

    I take the Kick from Live or Die in the core kits and program a 2 bar quarter note beat in 75 bpm. All notes on the same "pitch". Velocity at full (12 o'clock). When clicking on the manual button I see that this sample has two dynamic layers. I go back to non manual mode and in playback it plays back the same sample which is what to be expected. If I now lower the dynamic knob to 0.7 it clearly plays back different samples in a random manner. If i lower the dynamic knob to below 0.5 it changes sample and there is no variation even if I go lower in velocity.
    If i decide to distribute the round robins to different pitches it seems like the below 0.5 sample doesn't change to different round robins and the above 0.5 changes samples but in a very random manner.
    I like the sounds of the library and I want to be able to program a phrase that is consistent in the playback but so far I've not managed to do that.
    Is there some hidden random parameter that is messing with the playback...?

    /Jacob



  • Dear Jacob @bigisland

    Hmm, this sounds weird. Normally there shouldn't be anything random in the moment you have all samples in one RR("pitch":).

    BTW: There is indeed a Random parameter in the automation matrix, that is affecting the velocity if you cranked it up.. may that be the issue?

    Best,
    d



  • I´ve made som loops to show what happens based on my description in the previous post.

    Loop 1 is with dynamics knob at full. Behavior as expected.
    Loop 2 is with dynamics knob at 0.75. Clear and random variation in the playback.
    Loop 3 is with dynamics knob at 0.55. Clear and random variation in the playback.
    Loop 4 is at 0.4 and then it plays the same sample.

    I´m attachén a screenshot as well to show what the instrument looks like in my logic session. As far as I can tell no random parameters are active.

    /Jacob





    PercX.jpg



  • Dear @bigisland

    Oh! You're absolutely right. Could reproduce this. I guess you stumbled over a new bug in the engines playback that must've slipped in with the latest update.

    We'll definitely address this in an update to PercX, shortly!

    Many thanks for your effort in reporting this! (Hit SYNC for a little reward :))

    All best,
    d

    (Snippet)

    PercXPreset.1280.3oc6c1saiSDEGebZMaYEfPbKBQuX4BTkrV6j1lBWz78tgl1jMwrrfPBMMYZ6Hrmwq+Hpgm.dm.IdEPhGBtsuAvLw1I1yDVDnsvFoStHpy+Yr8wm+y76HGMpdTHIhDiL1cDMd5MM84ILQq2dWT1mm3wuD64R7C3EkOGGESBeBlxJpNl7xDZHYV2aCvrHJmEgLdOyAz4j84g62gR9bwE5b7zPdDBYr2x+BY7AT1LxsHCSC443BrOQzmYa2wC12F0NILjvhOmOir9JsWiL4mi8RJne2osauAoI9bd7MT10Ei0IjWdFYwEI9WRBKL7eQnKDmDSBhVKueCg7e0ooOKlHtaiWT7pJzGv4AJRJ4w8aHBglww3oe+Zwe8Tg3XhGAGQTT0i1zC1EeomXrULQYGWlvmX5TyZ0mSZK9Z9PwWWcvJw4Ck2BcvwXjwiMq5Xsp6kCu5vWQa4z.EGzP0Ac.Gb6xAqn5fUAGb6xA2Q0AqAN31kCtqpCdH3faWNnopCdD3faWN3ao5fGCN31kC9.UGrN3fuQ6fCHWEOxCuPDTHiG1zFY7QmQEOM56V7QHQBo9EwrpOD5HbolCEsLpLlmDSb48dQ9iYNgQCHgkmHHTCHjYkxxLbP.kQhhJNrK3g9XOZDoyBF1mNMp3gjqIRlDVBNV7Xvq6tdid7vojIAdz3A7hFEBsrmmS73SEtuZmSlh8V0YdGe5296mVpix2O2cp5rg8ZjpLfLm3U7z+TtWg66G0nCYJd8Lve72ZLIIJV6o8KOqRNpavAD6RwsTwQSoplhsxRs7CcyxU0j6xlaudlqnky5VF6bNNNjJlx7n1DOuRAnTvQUnppPMUgCUENRU3XUg5pBmnJX+XMEsX0VKXs0hVasv0VKds0BXasH1VKjs0hYGsX1QO+pEyNZwriVL6nEyNZwrSoXVtLvdLlMi6qJ6rY4paVt1lkObyxGsY4i2rb8MKehtr.kIXHghEclsVDfihjrIicxpVI.sID1zxUmR6xMrzp96NUV7nKStdnDcSBauTLTMrmgw4zYzdTOh7GpaUCwBo9cVthJEw+LyCO1h4dzY0a2ZZ2dVVc9hQSbut2WKI58rFIDlWi8Cc9xai5II8ekkaeKR8mZ0skk02XO9Z43N3fVVMsl2+YmcQSj7pjVyVtr0vk5SlPulgiSBEZlhRVsvgKws+7OI97GebiK39TQ+7BExdeA9hsIYYZXRLNrzuvYZtozsOp6yD2pEy4hKrHzDlQTdAjd8bWkQMpfZJlh+guYUJBgdkkhp8ZsTzxHDJE82WJpBTJBJEs8UJ5eJQbGTyp.QDHh.QDHh.QLiHVCHh.QDHh.QDHhYDwCAhHPDAhHPDAhXFQ7HfHBDQfHBDQfHlQDOFHh.QDHh.QDHhYDw5.QDHh.QDHh.QLkHNl3iCR2SRUxVh7PyNjqvIdweFxMDyhB3x0roG8+lq.85aJr4TaYCHX.ACHX.ACH3T.YKXCPBDQfHBDQfHlSDgM.IPDAhHPDAhXNQD1.j.QDHh.QDHh4DQXCPBDQfHBDQfHlSDgM.IPDAhHPDAhXNQD1.j.QDHh.QDHh4DQXCPBDQfHBDQfH9e1FfTfPEGxPF4LF+RIO0P9uBt2wr2K9tzWFDB2e2kb19EecN3tHHcsXeFiDps5cn.OqqtNvReiBfJedMtmNuUtmNu67Z67pl9efL82Dx7+Ok4aAY96+L+epsfIGO
    


  • Thanks!

    And while you´re at it, make it so the dynamics knob follows velocity from the daw. It would eliminate an automation step..:-)

    /Jacob



  • Hi Jacob,

    we've taken a look at the problem and it is in fact "not a bug but a feature" 🙂

    The Dynamics knob is not just a velocity scaler and there are a lot of hidden features and tricks that work behind the scenes in addition to just scale the velocities in order to achieve an organic effect when downscaling the dynamics. One of them is that once a certain threshhold is passed it starts shuffling the round robin samle indexes in order to avoid the machine gun effect.

    Unfortunately this function has the weird side effect that you are experiencing if you try to make a consistent sample playback for certain types of music genres (and yes you really don't want a four to the floor kick drum to randomly jump between samples).

    However the solution is pretty easy: just leave the dynamic scaler at 1.0 (this ensures a WYSIWYG for the round robin indexes) and then use the velocity sliders for each MIDI note in the EDIT window to set them to the velocity you want (right click to draw a line):

    dd91b2e3-14f0-4e01-a07f-6b2df240653b-image.png

    As for your other request, it's a good idea to allow the note that triggers the playback to control the dynamics by its velocity, but it wouldn't help in your case, because then you would end up with the downscaling and shuffling of the round robins again (plus it has to be an optional feature that you turn on). But we'll add it to the backlog for the next update.



  • Hi Christoph.

    Thanks for clarifying this, I will now stay clear of messing with the dynamics knob....

    A humble suggestion would be to clarify this to the users as I'm sure there are others apart from me who would like to use this as a more traditional sample library and do all the programming manually. Not all of us are into the wall of tribal cinematic drum loops...:-).
    To have a numerical readout for the velocity would be good, to know how many samples are available within each set of round robin would also be nice. (Spitfire does this cleverly in their string libraries which opens up for creative and musical programming.) Maybe even a numerical readout for the position of the notes in the grid.

    What I like about the library is the amount of round robins (even though unclear how many) and the fact that they vary in texture and sound. This opens up a door to making simple but musical phrases that can fit into a bigger musical picture without taking up all of the space...

    /Jacob



  • @bigisland said in Perc X Round Robin:

    To have a numerical readout for the velocity would be good

    Yes that is a sensible request. I'll add a text label with the velocity information when you hover over a note.



  • Great!

    However, at least for my workflow, its when I adjust the velocity slider I wanna know the value. Otherwise I need to hover over the note to get the value and then go back and readjust the slider....

    Also, the the shortcut for drawing a line with right clicking and move mouse does not work on my neither of my macs...

    /Jacob



  • I am new precxer, love it so far, still learning. I am just wondering, if I use it in manual mode. For example, use my DAW MIDI to perform different parts of the PercX kits (in manual mode), will I still get the Round Robin samples? or just one? or depend on the dynamic knob setting? or something else? To run the PercX in this way, as long as its round robin samples played I am happy.

    Great software. Keep up the great job.

    cheers

    LJ



  • Dear @cppmusic

    When you use PercX "from the outside" with Manual Mode all the engine can do is to cycle through the Round Robin samples one after the other in each particular velocity layer.

    Because there is only plain MIDI notes coming in, the engine can't differentiate between particular RR Notes or pick a very special one in Manual Mode.

    If you want to be very precise with the samples you can use the normal mode, record a simple long midi note to play it back from your DAW and edit the RR Samples inside the PercX Midi editor.

    Nice hearing that you enjoy Percx :)!

    All best,
    Dominik



  • @Dominik-Mayer Hello Dominik. Thats great, I am happy with the design like this, as long as it cycle through the round robin sample notes as the round robin originally intended, if I want to have more controll then I can use the normal mode as you suggested. Thank you for your great works. LJ


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